How to Identify DITA Topic Types (like a Pro)

[00:00:00.150] - Liz Fraley

Welcome to the TC Dojo from Single-Sourcing Solutions TC Dojo is a tech comm community that is driven by you. Tell us what you want to learn. You choose the topics and we find the experts. 

[00:00:13.130] - Liz Fraley

In the TC Dojo open session today, our topic is identifying DITA topics, please type the questions in the question window as we go. I like it best when I can talk to people, not just at them. And this session is a webinar version of a kind of mentoring session we do early on with our customers.

[00:00:30.060] - Liz Fraley

And when more detailed, it's a big two or three-day workshop we teach people to do so. Please type in your questions, your stories, whatever comes to mind. I promise it'll be a better session for all of us. Thanks for coming today. I'm your host Liz Fraley. I've written two books. I'm in the middle of putting out three more. I founded TC Camp, the nonprofit unconference for technical communications and launched this webinar series. This is the hundred and twentieth webinar, I think in our seventh year.

[00:00:58.830] - Liz Fraley

And thanks to all of you for suggesting topics and finding the TC DOJO valuable. Now, let's play our game. As a short TC DOJO webinar, there is a lot to cover when you're new to DITA, even choosing a topic type seems hard, right? New writers tend to lean away from the specialized topic types, choosing that generic topic over and over again. And this gives you inconsistent structures, inconsistent content across writers because everybody's using a generic purpose and not really adopting DITA.

[00:01:29.850] - Liz Fraley

It's very easy for writers to wing it using desktop publishing. And when you fall back to the generic topic, the same thing is happening again. So what I've got here for you today is one strategy for identifying topics in legacy content and for new content going forward. Right. You want to unify your authors so everyone works better together, right? Even if you do a complete content audit today, it will change tomorrow when the next product, the next book, the next deliverable, whatever it is comes along, you're going to need to know how to identify its content and work it into your content library.

[00:02:06.540] - Liz Fraley

And this is one way we do it. We take a practical approach. And what I'm going to do here is I am going to speed walk through the approach we take with our customers who come to DITA from desktop publishing. It's a thirty minute version of a two or three day workshop that's interactive, responsive and an iterative approach designed to help all of your team master new material and new skills up to standard. If you want to learn more about the workshop, you can find it at bit.ly/dita-workshop.

[00:02:39.640] - Liz Fraley

All right, let's get started. Here is your assignment: whenever you have existing DITA legacy content that you want to convert to DITA or you have something new coming into your content library, your first thing to do is understand what you have. Right. So here's what we start with. We start with pick a document, any of your documents, any of your deliverables. So I'll use document and deliverable fairly interchangeably simply for us having a common understanding.

[00:03:11.080] - Liz Fraley

So you choose a document, you're going to examine all of the source content. You're going to look through it as if you are not the one who write it, doesn't know it intimately, and you're going to identify potential topics.

[00:03:24.940] - Liz Fraley

And whether you're looking at that at a head-level, head one, head two, head three, head four at least that's a place to start for sure. But identify each one as what it is. Is it a Task? Is it a Reference? is it a Concept or is it right at this moment "Too Hard" for you to tell?

[00:03:43.030] - Liz Fraley

And "Too Hard" is absolutely a legitimate thing to choose, especially when you're getting started. All right. You're going to. So we have this little worksheet, that we usually deliver. And we ask people to identify the topics and then record it on the worksheet, whether you use a spreadsheet or you just have a bunch of pieces of paper on your desk, whatever works best for you, even if you are printing the whole document and then tearing it apart and piling it physically on a table, any method that works best for you is an OK method is absolutely appropriate because this is you learning how to digest and reassess your content.

[00:04:27.310] - Liz Fraley

Right. So you're going to record your decisions in some way. But one thing we have to agree upon first. Right. And this is why there is "Too Hard". As a group, we have to agree that one topic answers one question well, it doesn't do multiple things. It's not explaining a Concept and then describing the Task and including Reference items. It is doing one thing well, it is either explaining the Concept or it contains Reference information that somebody is going to look up like when you've got a recipe you used to do all the time, but you can't remember how much garlic goes in there.

[00:05:05.590] - Liz Fraley

You look it up and then you close the recipe book and you go on. Right. And it's always in that ingredients part of the recipe. So one thing does one thing well, as long as we can agree on that, it becomes a lot easier to reassess our content. Well, there's one more thing we're going to agree on. Second, we're going to agree as a team, all of the writers together are going to agree as a team what constitutes conceptual information for the content we write and deliver every day?

[00:05:37.580] - Liz Fraley

What constitutes a Reference?

[00:05:40.310] - Liz Fraley

There may be some things where people look at the same, say indications for use, for medical device, indications for use that could be conceptual or reference, depending on how you look at it. But as a team, you want to decide what that should be. So you're not getting it as both from the authoring team. Right. So we're going to agree as a team that one topic answers one question well, and that certain parts of our material will be always considered Reference Concept or Task.

[00:06:15.100] - Liz Fraley

That's what we're going to describe. So let's talk about what each one of them is.  We're going to start with Task cause Task is the easiest, Task is the easiest to identify and find because it's steps to reproduce a procedure. Right. It's a series of actions how to accomplish one task. They are steps that reproduce a result. It's not a multiple, not multiple sets of steps to do a bigger process. It is just a simple task. OK, so we're going to distinguish here the notion of Task versus Procedure, a procedure being a set of task together that accomplish a bigger goal.

[00:06:54.070] - Liz Fraley

Right. And we're going to talk about the Task. These are hardest to write because DITA makes it highly structured. While they're the easiest to identify, they're the hardest to write because DITA requires you to conform to their task element structure. Right. What elements you're allowed to use and in what order? You can only have one set of substeps. So if you've got to start a big task that has bunches of substeps at multiple levels, then this is going to take a rewrite and a way of rethinking what you have.

[00:07:28.060] - Liz Fraley

Right. So it can be the hardest to write because it is super rigid and it can take some getting used to and how to rethink your task, to separate the steps and substeps from one thinking of them as one task to a set of tasks in a greater procedure. Right. So remember,what we agreed to in the beginning. One topic does answers one question well, so if you're describing a big procedure like how to set up the firewall sandwich that takes 18 tasks, say you got to go over here and set permissions, you've got to create the users.

[00:08:06.560] - Liz Fraley

You've got to set up some basic administration interfaces for us and you've got to do these other things. So there's a set of steps that you have to go through, sets of steps to create this whole procedure. Right. And your procedure is not because it has all those little tasks. Each one of those little tasks is answering one question. How do I set up the users? How do I set up the administrative requirements for this?

[00:08:31.670] - Liz Fraley

How do I set up an interface? Your task does one set of steps well, right? And we're going to distinguish tasks from procedures and procedures in the DITA world, are a set of tasks joined together by a map. Right. A map is your collection bucket. It groups a bunch of things together so you can have all those little tasks and still have them grouped together as a unit that you can move around like the firewall sandwich.

[00:09:02.770] - Liz Fraley

I see a question, steps and substeps are the only task levels, what about stepsection? Stepsection is not, it's a divider, not a substep. So hopefully that will answer you still only have two levels of steps, stepsection is simply a grouper, a divider. It is not depending on what publishing tool you're using. How it is interpreted farther down is a different thing. But I would say if you have a lot of stepsections and you've got things that are reusable pieces like setting up the interfaces or creating the user permissions, that's not a substep, that's an independent task all of its own, because you're going to do that in other places, too. 

[00:09:45.070] - Liz Fraley

All right. So how do we feel about Task? All right. So I'm not seeing any questions or anything in the chat window. So we're going to step up to the next one. 

[00:09:59.730] - Liz Fraley

Let's talk about Reference, Reference is the second easiest task to identify and is often misinterpreted as a Concept. So think about reference information in that same context, I was talking about recipes, right?

[00:10:16.860] - Liz Fraley

This is the stuff you're going to look up and then because you can't remember a specific detail, but you know that what you're doing, you just want to remember what was the tolerance supposed to be? What was the Temperature supposed to use? What group was they supposed to be in? How much of something or what's the parameter to that function again? Oh, yeah. Yeah, right. They're going to look it up and they're going to go back to work.

[00:10:42.330] - Liz Fraley

So a reference topic should be written and designed as information, easy to identify and simply the facts. Not a lot of description, not a lot of background, not a lot of explaining because somebody's coming to this task. Isn't looking for that. They're not looking like, why do I want to do this? They're looking for how much do I need? What was that detail again, right? So think about it in terms of user experience and what your user is trying to do when you write a reference topic.

[00:11:13.000] - Liz Fraley

Also, remember, this is defining reference material for some level of detail. This is look up content.

[00:11:20.410] - Liz Fraley

It's not for reading, right? It is for reference.

[00:11:24.340] - Liz Fraley

Reference is probably one of the most flexible structures because it lets you have sections, sections do not equate to level heads. Depending on your publishing tool, but if you're using a section and you're not creating an equal topic that is embedded as a level, then you're telling the tool, you're telling DITA that it's not as important. A section does not have the same weight as another topic right? It's just a part of this topic, it doesn't have the same weight and typically will not show up at table of contents, and it shouldn't because it's not equal weight.

[00:12:01.830] - Liz Fraley

You decided to use section and not another topic. Simply because it does not have the weight of a topic, so a lot of times these are dismissed in favor of concept or generic topic.

[00:12:15.470] - Liz Fraley

Right? But you know if --don't default to something because it's hard to create the structure you want, remember what you're doing, remember what the user's goal is supposed to be, and remember what you're trying to get them back to work.

[00:12:29.420] - Liz Fraley

Right. This is the whole thing. You're trying to make their job easy and not trying to make it harder for them to sort through your information so they can get back to work. You want them back to work as fast as possible. All right. So remember, reference uses pretty flexibly. 

[00:12:49.110] - Liz Fraley

Alex asks if sections always need unique titles? Actually, section does not require a title. This should tell you it's mostly just a grouping bucket. It is a way for you as a writer to associate things together, to give it a wrapper, especially if you're doing complicated KeyRefs or ConRefs, and you want to be able to pull in a set of things, right, it makes it easy for you to do that, but it does not require a title. So don't think of it as equivalent to a topic. And that's my biggest advice for that, so but it is very flexible. Reference is one of the easiest, most flexible structures and it's got a bunch of other things that are part of it, like Example and Results.

[00:13:36.830] - Liz Fraley

Right. So there's a lot of things you can do in reference, like any sample code is reference. Right, it's a sample that they're looking up, how they do stuff, you're not explaining what a sample is, you're giving them sample content or you're giving them an example, that is a reference material is not conceptual. So but when you're doing this as a team, you're going to look at your content. And I don't know what any of your content looks like because you come from all kinds of different industries and all kinds of different companies.

[00:14:03.350] - Liz Fraley

But this why this exercise that we go through as a group, you look at what you have and say, you know what, this we're going to treat this always as a Reference and we're going to treat this always as a Task or we're going to treat this always as a Concept, because when we're--the purpose of this in our documentation is to serve this user goal. Right. So that's why that agreement about what each thing is going to be matters and it matters early on and should be part of your Authoring Style Guide, or some people will call that the Information Model.

[00:14:36.500] - Liz Fraley

I like Authoring Style Guide because it is an agreement between the authors about writing and structure. 

[00:14:43.710] - Liz Fraley

OK, now let's talk about Concept. Concepts are actually pretty rare in most documentation.

[00:14:51.240] - Liz Fraley

You are rarely explaining what something is. Right, so let me give you an example. So one of our customers makes big, you know, on an airplane kind of camera equipment, you know, or satellite camera equipment. And one of the settings is for infrared. OK, so they may have a topic that explains what infrared is. Right. That would be the concept if they're not actually explaining what infrared is, but how to use infrared on their on their product, it's no longer a Concept. How to use it, that sounds like steps. It might also sound like a Reference to hear your settings, these settings give you these results, that's a reference topic. Neither one of those are a concept. 

[00:15:46.040] - Liz Fraley

Concepts truly are descriptive, explanatory ("what is") concept. You may include guidelines here, right, or rules, maybe some definitions. If you're not using gloss entry or you want something a little bit deeper than a gloss entry, you might use Concept. Think of this as designed to promote understanding.

[00:16:08.190] - Liz Fraley

This is something someone's reading because they're trying to understand maybe the purpose of your product, not how to use it or how to set it up or how to do anything, but what its purpose is and where it fits in. Right, this is truly--concepts are pretty rare, although I see it in a lot of new DITA authors, they'll default to Concept because Concept like Reference is very flexible and it feels like I'm explaining things. Well, yes, we are always explaining things we do as technical writers.

[00:16:41.550] - Liz Fraley

But you know, if you're not really--if you're explaining the values of something or how to set something or the task to do it, that's no longer a Concept. Think of Concept as pure, right. Really, what is truly conceptual, and it is actually pretty rare in your content libraries. All right, so I hope everybody's OK with Concept so far. 

[00:17:11.070] - Liz Fraley

So let's go back to "Too Hard", right, so I told you you could mark things as one of four things Concept, Task, Reference or Too Hard.

[00:17:18.330] - Liz Fraley

Right. I like to mark things as Too Hard when it's not obvious whether it's really a Concept or whether it's a Reference or it's a Task or if it's got more than one thing all mixed in together. Right. Because with desktop publishing, you're not required to separate these things. And it's easy for us to mix that stuff together. Right. And if you look at it and you can't decide right away what it is, just set it aside and move on to the next one.

[00:17:44.580] - Liz Fraley

Right. Because after you go through most of your content and you've been through two hundred tasks, one hundred references and fifty concepts, you'll be like, you'll be able to go back to those Too Hard Concepts or those Too Hard topics and say, I see what this is. This really is partially a reference information, so I'm going to pull it out. And this is partially conceptual or task or you know what? I don't really need this. It will be easier to identify once you've had a whole bunch of the other topic types under your belt. You've had experience deciding what they all are.

[00:18:21.120] - Liz Fraley

Here's our question. Would you say "what is" also falls under Concept? That is that--that one is typically I can go either way. Let me go back to Concept here. Let's go back to Concept. Right. So "what is". Yes, as long as you're not talking about what is the value for setting Infra-Red so that it can see two hundred feet? All right, that's not a Concept that is Reference. So be careful about what it is and you know it really is dependent on you.

[00:18:56.790] - Liz Fraley

We've had several customers. We go through this and we go through this in discussion. Right. Everybody has to agree this is a consensus driven process. You've got a lot of people working together and you want everybody to have a chance to say why they think it should be a Reference or a Concept or what. Right. And then you record that in your authoring style guide, this kind of information that we've produced regularly is going to be considered this.

[00:19:26.660] - Liz Fraley

So there you go. Hopefully that answers your question, let me know. Checking the task, check in the window. All right. Sometimes we need explaining with samples. I would assume it's still a Concept, but possibly what is the sample for is a sample about how to set it, how to set the settings, how to do things, or are you really explaining?

[00:19:48.140] - Liz Fraley

So let's go back to something that's common. But like I found in that last STC Doc Competition when I was a judge. When you're talking about IP addresses, OK, we're setting up, you're selling computers, setting up IP addresses, rarely do anyone. Does anyone explain in 2019 what an IP address is, what it means or what it's for, how it's configured. Unless you work for a DNS. Right, a cloud service and it matters that people who don't know what is mean make what it is. But in 2019 I think we all know what an IP address is. So if you're giving examples of IP address, then maybe yes. If you're talking about examples of how to set up one, how to configure one, how to determine internal versus external, then not so much, flow diagrams of other components. That depends. If you are, it would really depend on I'd have to look at the content and see possibly.

[00:20:53.770] - Liz Fraley

Yes, possibly No if the flow diagram describes the process of tasks you need to go through. Maybe, maybe, right, and this is why--where your expertise and your content matters more than a hard and fast rule and that you as a group decide this is what it's going to be.

[00:21:15.380] - Liz Fraley

All right, all right, so but I want to come back to you "Too Hard" and we'll come back to questions again at the end, right. So it's a lot easier to do Too Hard once you've been through a whole bunch.

[00:21:25.340] - Liz Fraley

Right. And don't get stuck on the word Topic. Right. You do have bigger structures available to you. Remember the procedure and the grouping in a map. You can group a whole bunch. You can do anything you want you can group a Concept and a Reference and a Task or two all together in a map. Now, we'll move the thing as a unit, it doesn't have to all be in one topic, one topic answers one question well, stick to that rule and use your map to group things together.

[00:21:57.230] - Liz Fraley

All right, right, and here's the one that's the key. Discuss rewriting possibilities with your team, right? You're not alone. None of us are alone. If nothing else, you can always you know book time with a mentor, with us, with anybody, go to a writing group or STC or your local chapter or something and say, you know, what do you think this is? I think it's this right. And work through it in discussion and that will help you decide what you're trying to do.

[00:22:29.060] - Liz Fraley

All right, so what happens next once you have an idea about what these things are and you've agreed on how your information is going to fall into those things, right? Where are their disagreements? Right, you want to come to consensus, you want the writers as your team to come together and decide on those things. So like the question was sample, we provide samples like a flow diagram among components. Well, so as a team, how do you want to think of that?

[00:23:08.900] - Liz Fraley

Do you want to think of it as a Reference or as a Concept? What purpose is that information serving in your document set in your deliverable? What is the user doing when they go to that Concept or to Reference? What are they doing that they end up at that page, at that piece of information? What are they doing that they come to that? If they're looking something up, it's a Reference. If they don't understand it's a Concept.

[00:23:37.790] - Liz Fraley

It's about your user. It's about your reader, not about your necessarily you right? We do this through discussion frequently. We do this in our workshop. We do this is a two or three day workshop and we work through a couple of books and we split into groups and we come back together and we work through a Too Hard list, as well as talk about why different people made different decisions.

[00:24:05.220] - Liz Fraley

And we come to this consensus as a group and I ask a lot of questions and I challenge a lot of assumptions. But that's the key part to learning, right, both in information and process. You want to own this going forward, because the new deliverable will come down. You'll get acquired as you acquire a new company. There's a new product that they come up completely out of the blue and you have to know how to work all of that back into your content library.

[00:24:31.010] - Liz Fraley

So you need to know how to do this and not just have someone do it for you. So lots of discussions, lots of consensus work as peers together, don't write in isolation, you're not in isolation. You guys are working together to create a content library and you're sharing that information. So be sure to give into that a little bit.

[00:24:54.340] - Liz Fraley

You know, there's one of the things is everybody in TechComm, honestly, everybody is always so very nice. Right. And we all like to help each other. So work with your peers to come to some consensus and make decisions and lean on each other to make it better.

[00:25:11.440] - Liz Fraley

Right, they're there to help you, nobody's ever going to be upset or yelling at anyone else. So here are the final words of wisdom for experts and novices alike. Know your content goal. right. Re-evaluate what you know is true. This is a concept. I know it's a Concept. Well, you know step back and think about what your user is doing and then come back at it and see if that's right. Ask "Why" listen, and then ask "Why" again, just because it's always been this way doesn't mean it should stay this way, right?

[00:25:46.220] - Liz Fraley

When you move into DITA out of desktop publishing, you're doing it for a reason.

[00:25:50.870] - Liz Fraley

Right, so it's time to relook at our content and decide about it from a new perspective, right, engage in that healthy debate and don't be afraid to get it wrong, you will get it wrong. You can change your mind later. You can adjust things as you go forward. I never get things right the first time.

[00:26:07.960] - Liz Fraley

Not ever. Right. You want to fail early. You want to fail fast. You want to make those mistakes so that you don't make them again later. Right. And you can always adjust things going forward because there will be adjustments. The new product coming down the line may change your content library may change which things are reasonable or are now or are no longer reusable because of this new product coming in. Right. That's the only thing we can guarantee is that it's never going to be right permanently, forever.

[00:26:36.970] - Liz Fraley

So don't be afraid to get it wrong because you can change your mind later. So here are the recommendations were coming right up on the half hour. You can always have us come to you that DITA Workshop for Authoring Teams. This is a two or three day workshop. We do this in person. Sometimes we do it remotely and we assign homework. Yes, we do. We assign homework because you're the ones, again, who want to own this, who want to develop these skills so that you are more effective every day that you're working.

[00:27:08.040] - Liz Fraley

So but you can see the description of the workshop there on the website. And I'll give you two books. One is 80-page book "Practical DITA" by Julio Vazquez.

[00:27:18.360] - Liz Fraley

And I've got a little shortcut links here because I recommend these all the time and it's easier for me to remember the short link than the long one. So http colon slash slash julio dot tcdojo dot org [https://www.single-sourcing.com/vazquez] will drop you to the 80-page book at Amazon by Julio Vazquez. Anybody can read 80 pages, right? And it will give you detail, more detail than I have given you about what a Task is, what a References, what a Concept is. But 80 pages, anybody can get through that.

[00:27:45.660] - Liz Fraley

Once you've gotten pretty confident with that, you can then go to the "DITA Best Practices" by Bellamy Carey & Schlotfeldt this is http colon slash slash bellamy dot tcdojo dot org [https://www.single-sourcing.com/bellamy] And this book has a whole chapter on how to write a short description. Short descriptions have a lot of purpose in DITA, they serve a lot of goals actually. So they've devoted a whole chapter on how to write them. So if you want to understand your basics of concepts and testing reference, there's a lot more in that in the "DITA Best Practices" is far more in-depth and far more advanced than just the basics, but extremely good.

[00:28:27.920] - Liz Fraley

Otherwise, find a buddy. I mentioned this earlier, come to us, go to STC meeting, go to your peers, find someone you can discuss what you're doing, discuss with them. Right. Find out what you've got to do, why you're choosing this topic type and make sure other people agree with you.

[00:28:46.010] - Liz Fraley

Right. And work it out, talk through it, figure out what's best for the overall content structure. Right. You're never doing this alone. Your team is there. They want to help, just like you would help them. Right. So trust them and be sure to do it. And if you can't do it, you know, we're here always to answer questions and then we've got the TC Dojo monthly group discussions. You can learn together from people at other industries, at other stages of the spectrum.

[00:29:13.730] - Liz Fraley

There's some new people, some older people, various people, I should say, and we meet every month to go over very specific things, more like the Bellamy book, some of the sometimes the Vazquez book.

[00:29:28.700] - Liz Fraley

Right. How should this have been a concept? Here's what I'm dealing with. It gives you at least somebody else to talk to. Right? You can't stay in your bubble and get it right. You really have to work together. Now it's time to type in those questions if you haven't already. And while you do, here's a look at what's coming up. 

[00:29:46.390] - Liz Fraley

The TC Dojo mastermind groups are monthly driven member discussion groups where attendees present their specific challenges to a group of their peers in a confidential, supportive environment.

[00:29:56.020] - Liz Fraley

The mastermind is a collaborative environment where everyone lends their experience to each other. They can get feedback and advice about topics on their mind in real time from others who've been in their shoes. It's been amazing to participate in and a lot of fun, too. We have three going on right now. One is Everything TechCom, DITA ,Topic Based Authoring,  the specifics of cross references or graphics. The other two are product focused on wind chill for I.T. and Arber text users.

[00:30:22.990] - Liz Fraley

These sessions are not free. They're a way to guarantee commitment between the participants. You can sign up at the TC Dojo website at http colon slash slash mastermind dot tcdojo dot org We know sometimes magic is just having the time to collaborate with someone who's been where you are.

[00:30:39.290] - Liz Fraley

If you are in the western half of the US, at least, TC Camp is coming up in April. At the end of the month, we have a whole day workshop on API Doc Writing, which at least up here is the number one hottest topic for writers to professors from UC Berkeley are coming to teach that here at San Jose State. And the morning workshops, we have Static Site Generators. We have Interviewing Subject Matter Experts and not API docs. What we have instead is Taxonomy

[00:31:07.310] - Liz Fraley

 Don Stevens from ComTech will be here to teach that. And then there's a free Adobe workshop with Matt Sullivan coming in from Southern California. It's going to be a great Paradies and it's down here at San Jose State and really easy to get to. It is an unconference if you don't know what that is. Be sure to go to TC Camp and take a look at the very dynamic day that you are guaranteed to be interested in everything because you help decide the agenda.  

[00:31:36.110] - Liz Fraley

Next time in the TC Dojo. We have Content Strategy. Johanne Lavallee from Signalisation Ver-Mac in Montreal is going to do a short version of the presentation she gave at LavaCon last year and she's going to talk about how you make that business case. Right, because cost matters is not just content. And if you even if you have one resource, you know, you can help figure out what your metrics are. You can help argue this business case to management so that you can have both time to do what you need to do, as well as learn and trade and get budget for what you want to happen.

[00:32:15.630] - Liz Fraley

How do you sign up? or you go to this other short link http colon slash slash tcdojo dot .org and you'll get to this page in all the upcoming webinars are at the bottom of the page. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me at Single-Sourcing Solutions. You can send me an email. 

[00:32:32.540] - Liz Fraley

Thanks for coming to the Single-Sourcing Solutions TC Dojo where it's all about you, what you want to learn. You should always attend a webinar live because you can't ask questions of a video,  subscribe to our TC Dojo mailing list at http colon slash slash join dot tcdojo dot org and never miss another.

[00:32:49.650] - Liz Fraley

Every month we go out and find experts willing to share their expertise based on your votes in the TC Dojo survey. Why should we tell you what to learn? You should tell us. So be sure to vote at http colon slash slash survey dot tcdojo dot org. 

[00:33:02.460] - Liz Fraley

Any other questions? TC Camp yes, is a free day. The API workshop is not free, but it's minimal. I think it's cost is $135 the morning workshops is something like $35.

[00:33:15.120] - Liz Fraley

But otherwise it's a pretty free event actually. The TC Dojo is our pleasure to host. As always, if you need more personal help, we're here to take you from the basics to mastery. See you next time.